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Post by shiryonatsu on Aug 24, 2015 9:27:35 GMT
Any ideas about that?
I was just been wondering (or maybe the others too)... About that winged figure on chap. 120 (too lazy to copy paste so yeah)
My idea is if there is demons there should be angels xD (someone..kill me..now) or a traitor?
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Post by *~~mattaku8World8bodimasen~~* on Aug 24, 2015 13:34:21 GMT
No I don't want to have angles!! )XO Demons are too cool!!! But I have to say if it involves angles then it'll be easier to explain about the demon king's death. I think if that happens then the demons are good and the angles are bad or the demons are bad but the demon king is good and the angles think the demons are bad or......... Well I think I can name at least 50 theory,there's so many things that could have happened. (And maybe the demon king's not dead yet)
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tg
Idun
Secret Theorist
Posts: 316
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Post by tg on Aug 25, 2015 4:52:35 GMT
I don't know... I feel that if we added angels to this story, it would make it kind of predictable. Because, there are plenty of manga/manhwa stories that feature angels and demons. Most of them portray the angels not in a good light, while the demons have some goodness in there. (I'm just a bit tired of reading stories that have some "bad - corrupt" angels. ^__^) Thankfully, the few that don't follow this route, at least, maintain that there are some good non-humans/demons within the demon realm. I'm more content with the theme of corrupt humans and evil demons verse everyone else, who are good. However, if there were angels, like in Soul Cartel (which does the whole angel/demon thing properly), then...,it's inevitable. God may have some sort of existence in this story, but this story isn't based on the Christian God. So, having angels here doesn't really make sense to me. Ah, anyways.. . Back to this mysterious winged creature... When I first saw this, i thought this was Dio in his dragon form. But then, I looked at the wings and they do look different form his wings. I can see why someone may think "angel" when looking at it. Maybe, the Demon King had a half-brother? Or, an evil demon, who wants to take over the demon realm? We still know very little here. >__< I could even picture this figure in a cloak, with a hood over him, spreading his wings out.
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Post by *~~mattaku8World8bodimasen~~* on Aug 26, 2015 14:40:03 GMT
I don't know... I feel that if we added angels to this story, it would make it kind of predictable. Because, there are plenty of manga/manhwa stories that feature angels and demons. Most of them portray the angels not in a good light, while the demons have some goodness in there. (I'm just a bit tired of reading stories that have some "bad - corrupt" angels. ^__^) Thankfully, the few that don't follow this route, at least, maintain that there are some good non-humans/demons within the demon realm. I'm more content with the theme of corrupt humans and evil demons verse everyone else, who are good. However, if there were angels, like in Soul Cartel (which does the whole angel/demon thing properly), then...,it's inevitable. God may have some sort of existence in this story, but this story isn't based on the Christian God. So, having angels here doesn't really make sense to me. Ah, anyways.. . Back to this mysterious winged creature... When I first saw this, i thought this was Dio in his dragon form. But then, I looked at the wings and they do look different form his wings. I can see why someone may think "angel" when looking at it. Maybe, the Demon King had a half-brother? Or, an evil demon, who wants to take over the demon realm? We still know very little here. >__< I could even picture this figure in a cloak, with a hood over him, spreading his wings out. Can I ask where it's from?):D Is it in BH?(cause it sounds like it is) If it is then I don't remember it,gotta re-read everything
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tg
Idun
Secret Theorist
Posts: 316
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Post by tg on Aug 26, 2015 15:08:50 GMT
^ In episode 119 of BH. Around the part where Dio was talking to Ruby's gang.
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Post by *~~mattaku8World8bodimasen~~* on Aug 26, 2015 15:40:46 GMT
^ In episode 119 of BH. :) Around the part where Dio was talking to Ruby's gang. Thanks:D I'm gonna read it again now
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tg
Idun
Secret Theorist
Posts: 316
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Post by tg on Aug 27, 2015 5:35:06 GMT
You're welcome. By now, I'm sure you have.
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Post by hasarena on Aug 28, 2015 3:46:36 GMT
Any ideas about that?
I was just been wondering (or maybe the others too)... About that winged figure on chap. 120 (too lazy to copy paste so yeah)
My idea is if there is demons there should be angels xD (someone..kill me..now) or a traitor? Maybe Shicmuon killed him in a past life? I know it's weird when you put reincarnation and stuff in theories but in other Demon Lord story lines, there's always a hero/knight who kills the Demon Lord. Plus, I think it's fishy how Shicmuon is so obsessed with Blow. I always thought of them as Yin and Yang. Kinda like light and dark whenever they are fighting. I dunno. Maybe that's just me and because I ship them.
As for the Angel, I never really noticed it before! And I have been rereading BH! We can fit the Angel/Heavenly power opposing the Demon Lord if they support a Hero/Knight. That's just from basic plot lines when Demon Lords are involved.
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Post by *~~mattaku8World8bodimasen~~* on Aug 28, 2015 12:40:19 GMT
Any ideas about that?
I was just been wondering (or maybe the others too)... About that winged figure on chap. 120 (too lazy to copy paste so yeah)
My idea is if there is demons there should be angels xD (someone..kill me..now) or a traitor? Maybe Shicmuon killed him in a past life? I know it's weird when you put reincarnation and stuff in theories but in other Demon Lord story lines, there's always a hero/knight who kills the Demon Lord. Plus, I think it's fishy how Shicmuon is so obsessed with Blow. I always thought of them as Yin and Yang. Kinda like light and dark whenever they are fighting. I dunno. Maybe that's just me and because I ship them.
As for the Angel, I never really noticed it before! And I have been rereading BH! We can fit the Angel/Heavenly power opposing the Demon Lord if they support a Hero/Knight. That's just from basic plot lines when Demon Lords are involved. I like that theory :D
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tg
Idun
Secret Theorist
Posts: 316
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Post by tg on Aug 29, 2015 6:28:23 GMT
Any ideas about that?
I was just been wondering (or maybe the others too)... About that winged figure on chap. 120 (too lazy to copy paste so yeah)
My idea is if there is demons there should be angels xD (someone..kill me..now) or a traitor? Maybe Shicmuon killed him in a past life? I know it's weird when you put reincarnation and stuff in theories but in other Demon Lord story lines, there's always a hero/knight who kills the Demon Lord. Plus, I think it's fishy how Shicmuon is so obsessed with Blow. I always thought of them as Yin and Yang. Kinda like light and dark whenever they are fighting. I dunno. Maybe that's just me and because I ship them.
As for the Angel, I never really noticed it before! And I have been rereading BH! We can fit the Angel/Heavenly power opposing the Demon Lord if they support a Hero/Knight. That's just from basic plot lines when Demon Lords are involved. That would be interesting, but a bit weird. If Shic killed the Demon King in the past life, I would feel a bit sad if this was true. Because, Shic helping Rood has been actually pretty cool so far (even if he's a psychopath). This would put a bit of a strain on the team building relationship that Rood and Shic were having. I would actually prefer Shic to just be a super strong Lanoste Magician representing the humans, who happens to resent the Tower. ^,^ That's me on that. As for the angel/demon relationship thing..... Because this kind of plot is very typical with a "Demon Lord", apocalypse or demons in general, that's one plot I hope doesn't happen. You see it in CLAMP's X, Juvenile Orion, Kamichama Karin, AAA (Anti-Anti-Angel), Soul Cartel (that's black/white so it's refreshing), Kurenai Ouji, Devils & Realist, etc... It would be refreshing here if there were no angels or very little involvement from them. "Angel" is a Christian element. I don't think the concept of Christianity exists in Black Haze, because this story doesn't take place in our world. We know God exists though, but this can be a different God. My 2 cents on how I feel with the Angel/Demon trope.
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Post by hasarena on Aug 30, 2015 6:24:12 GMT
Maybe Shicmuon killed him in a past life? I know it's weird when you put reincarnation and stuff in theories but in other Demon Lord story lines, there's always a hero/knight who kills the Demon Lord. Plus, I think it's fishy how Shicmuon is so obsessed with Blow. I always thought of them as Yin and Yang. Kinda like light and dark whenever they are fighting. I dunno. Maybe that's just me and because I ship them.
As for the Angel, I never really noticed it before! And I have been rereading BH! We can fit the Angel/Heavenly power opposing the Demon Lord if they support a Hero/Knight. That's just from basic plot lines when Demon Lords are involved. That would be interesting, but a bit weird. If Shic killed the Demon King in the past life, I would feel a bit sad if this was true. Because, Shic helping Rood has been actually pretty cool so far (even if he's a psychopath). This would put a bit of a strain on the team building relationship that Rood and Shic were having. I would actually prefer Shic to just be a super strong Lanoste Magician representing the humans, who happens to resent the Tower. ^,^ That's me on that. As for the angel/demon relationship thing..... Because this kind of plot is very typical with a "Demon Lord", apocalypse or demons in general, that's one plot I hope doesn't happen. You see it in CLAMP's X, Juvenile Orion, Kamichama Karin, AAA (Anti-Anti-Angel), Soul Cartel (that's black/white so it's refreshing), Kurenai Ouji, Devils & Realist, etc... It would be refreshing here if there were no angels or very little involvement from them. "Angel" is a Christian element. I don't think the concept of Christianity exists in Black Haze, because this story doesn't take place in our world. We know God exists though, but this can be a different God. My 2 cents on how I feel with the Angel/Demon trope. I live for the funny interactions between Blow and Shic and I think it would be tragic as well if Shic did kill the Demon King. We don't get a lot of background info on the characters so all we can do is speculate-- which is fun btw.
I am not familiar with all of the shows you mentioned but I have to agree that having angels would be cliche. It would be kinda late in the series to introduce angels but then if the Tower is so opposed to demons, have a giant Demon thing locked in their basement, I wouldn't put it past them to have or claim to have some kind of divine support.
Demons are also a Christian element. They are fallen angels so there is still a big possibility that we might have them in BH. Then again, there is a lot in Rood's plate right now and that new guy who got the doki doki when he sensed Rood from far away seems like the major threat right now than angels taking over.
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tg
Idun
Secret Theorist
Posts: 316
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Post by tg on Aug 31, 2015 6:10:05 GMT
Yeah. It's very fun. I agree. Everything I mentioned are manga, although, some of them do have anime adaptations (for better or worse). And, I think that world does have a belief in God, at least. That's probably their divine support (or prayer support). You made the great point that we're very much far into the story already. It was only one fallen angel to be exact. However, these kind of demons in BH are not the same as the ones in the Bible. Haha... (I'm Christian. I would know. Not Catholic though.) ^__^ The ones in the Bible are more, or less, possessing demons. You don't see them at all. Humans can only feel and react to them. Hollywood and fiction/fantasy writers tend to make up their own vision of these demons. From a non-religious point of view, Western fairytales/stories feature goblins, trolls, monsters, and the like. So, a demon isn't far-fetched in literature. Demons are visible in other religions like Buddhism, I think? I know that Japan depicts "oni" in physical form. They got stuff like "evil spirits", "tengu" (goblins), animal + nature spirits (hence, Ghibli's Spirited Away), and so forth... It's deeply rooted in a lot of their children's literature too. i.e.: Tale of the Bamboo Cutter, the story of one-two wang man, etc. So, as you said, there are a lot on Rood's plate right now. I think keeping this story as good humans/non-humans vs. corrupt humans/non-humans is enough as it should be. To add a forth wheel now into a story, where it doesn't really need them, would feel force to me. ^__^ Rood's got so many "interesting" people in his life.
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Post by hasarena on Sept 1, 2015 5:49:22 GMT
tg - I think it is safe to assume the picture might be some winged creature right now and there is no threat of a heavenly angel--whether of western or eastern origin--in BH at least for the meantime? Maybe just someone claiming to be holy? I have a feeling we will know soon because I think that winged creature is IN the Tower. dun duun duuun Yeah, the demons in BH are definitely not from the Bible but more of the typical demons/mythical creatures in literature and pop culture as you have mentioned. I will start reading those mangas! Some of my favs are Angel Sanctuary, Superior, Fairytale of the demon Lord, Masca, and Maoyuu Mao Yuusha. I also like CLAMP X 1999 you mentioned.
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Post by hasarena on Sept 1, 2015 7:07:48 GMT
All these angel questions are really making me curious! Knowing how the Demon King died will answer so many questions. I think that winged creature is IN the tower and could be Meredith, the founder of the Tower.
My theory so far is that the Demon King could have “died” either willingly or unwillingly and then he (A. reincarnated in spirit, B. was sealed inside a human, or C. became a human in flesh)
Also, it is possible that the tower was unable to kill him so they dispersed his powers and then somehow ended up as human OR the Demon King willingly dispersed his own powers and became a human so he can avoid the Tower's schemes.
All in all, I'm sure the Tower have something to do with the death of the Demon King because:
1. They have a giant Aravesk like demon in their basement (demon King's pet or part of his power?)
2. If Kielnode Chrishi is not human, then he was a demon kept in the Tower under that old magician's care. Meaning he was (a. caught, b. infiltrating) the Tower looking for the Demon King or the [husk]. When he found Rood, he left the Tower and made Opion to hide Rood. The sin that they were referring to that Kielnode did 8 years ago killing other magicians probably relates to Rood? Rood is 15 now so it makes him about 7 years old then, roughly the age of the little Rood in chains when Kielnode found him from the prologue. 3. Meredith, the Tower's founder can sense Rood in (ch 119) assuming he can detect black magic that he is familiar with even if he doesn't know Rood = Blow. He also mentioned in ch107 that he has let the [king free for 8 years]. He might be our winged creature? Heck, he might be the original KING in the prologue who first became a Magician. He could sense the Unawakened black magic in Rood and looks awfully young to have founded the Tower. We don't know (I forgot) how long the Demon King have died/MIA so it is not clear. I am also not sure how long ago did the Black Magician first became famous during that unexplained "incident" that Shic always mentioned? Anybody know?
Also, I reread the prologue and it said that a human King pleaded God to save his people from demons, they were granted powers to beat the demons and that was the beginning of magicians. The thing with the prologue was the suggestion that the magic was not from God but from the Demon King. What if the Tower wanted more power than what Magicians have? If the power really came from the Demon King, then they would want more of it. Unfortunately, the Demon King would rather die than give it to them so he willingly died and dispersed his powers into different vessels like a horcrux. He then reincarnates as human who becomes a [husk] of himself who they call [king] and his other powers are left in the Demon world and then in the basement of the Tower.
I'm not sure why 7 year old Rood was in chains though with a skeleton of the woman/ his mother(?).
That's my theory regarding the Demon King.
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tg
Idun
Secret Theorist
Posts: 316
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Post by tg on Sept 2, 2015 6:43:04 GMT
Alright. I forgot to mention in that thread that two of those titles, I listed, are webtoons. I'm sure you know of "Soul Cartel", but the other one is "Anti-Anti-Angel". They run through different genres so just pick whichever one that really catches your interest. On the other hand, I mentioned "Kamichama Karen", but I don't recommend this (and its sequel) too much unless you really don't mind seeing a lot of Koge Donbo's storytelling. Her art is cute, but her storytelling is....erm... Eeeh... I feel it's missing something. And it's also possible that her artstyle is actually a cripple on the story. Sorry, kind of rambling here. Don't want to be OT! >__< We got the Recommendation thread to talk about this if you want to continue further. Back to Black Haze! I really find your theories interesting, and may run a little similar to mine concerning some of the other characters. I'm not sure on Meredith being that mysterious winged creature, because we don't know much about Meredith, but it could really be anyone. Demons, in this story, have the ability to look like humans. They can pose as any magic user in the Tower, but not be a Magician. Meredith as the original King? o__o Woah... Never thought of that...., before? I think some users said it's been an year since the "incident" between Blow, Iel and Shic. I agree with you that the Tower wants more power. Some of us theorize that it's that chained up demoon that serves as their power source. You brought up a good point that the Tower may have gone after the Demon King, in the past, which caused him to lose his life. The Demon King got "reborn" as a human, so now, the Tower has actually gotten their chance on claiming him if they ever found out who Rood use to be.... Yeah, a "Husk" reference makes more sense on Rood than on Rubymonter. I know the translation there seemed kind of wonky in that part. The translation called Rubymonter, the "Husk". But, that doesn't make sense if she's suppose to be the inheritor of the power. Maybe, the Tower received rumors of the "Husk" of the Demon King, so, the Tower thought Ruby was that "Husk"? You have to rmemeber that Rood was chained up, not just with that woman, but also other skeletons too. We all would like to know why, and what exactly is that room? A hybrid storage/prison? Test subject junk room? Throw all "failed" subjects into that room to starve? Only Rood seemed to be ok, but that all depends on how long he's been in there. As for Master, you have to also remember that he took magic exams to get into the Tower. He didn't get captured or anything of that sort. I'm not sure it matters much in terms of him being human or not, but, I got the impression that he worked loyally for the Tower for some time before finding out the truth. (We never saw a Magician mark on him, so, he can very much be a demon in disguise.) That "truth" led him to survive the Ritual, while "stealing" something (/someone) precious, which goes along with your mentioning about that incident. Anyways, I like how you mentioned Opion was formed to "hide" Rood. That seems like it, right? Meredith, though, seemed very aware of Rood's "freedom".... Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. If you have any deeper theories on Rood and the Demon King, you can post them in the Mindscapes thread if you want to.
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